I know it may sound odd, but I don't think the problem stems from families. I've been living in central Europe now for over ten years and Czech families can be really rough when it comes to physical violence, but it doesn't spill over into a public arena. There is a cultural problem that I suspect stems from the idea that a bar is a 'bad' place and what I mean by that is that alcohol is not served in a public sphere but a private one where one goes to 'sin'; alcohol is and has been demonized in anglo-saxon culture for quite some time.
I go to some pretty scruffy bars out here, in fact, I go out of my way to find the scruffy ones and I have yet to see a bar fight between locals; it just isn't done and this is largest beer drinking country in the world. Last month I was in Oktoberfest in Munich for the second time and in a tent with some 5000 people all pissed out of their heads and there wasn't a hint of violence anywhere. I cannot imagine 5000 drunk Canadians, Brits, Americans or Australians in one place without a few inches of blood on the floor.
You'll also find that a pub in this part of the world is a bright place as you drink in public; it is normal, whereas UK, Canada and US bars are dark places with little to no view in or out. Here, you drink in front of women, children, grandparents and more often than not, dogs (not that they care). The effect is that the aggresive behaviour is curtailed due to a social influence as well as the amount of alcohol consumed (Babicka doesn't care for drunks!). The attempt to ban alcohol has been tried and failed miserably so it seems clear to me that is a normal human behaviour and as such, it should be brought out into the open as much as possible so as to remove the taboos and the social behaviour that demonizing.
The smaller towns are behind the times in this logic. Go to Vancouver, the bouncers are professional and the days of 'getting taken out back' are long over. It took a couple incidents for this logic to be brought out to my old hometown of Pitt Meadows, 'Roosters' Bar had a bad rap for this... things eventually changed, but of course not without losses in the process. It's a shame.
Originally Posted by Geo
masculinity and BUILDING MUSCLE CARS
i have found my personal jesus christ, my outlet for defining my masculinity... im not a fighter, im not a bully, though i am a manly man... I have a 92 camaro that is being injected with steroids... metaphorically... its getting the biggest small block chevy made, pre 86.... and im gonna take it down the track a few times, see how fast my beast can go with 3.73 gears, posi, a TH350 tranny, and a few other tweaks....
oooo yeah - "it's a love affair."
I have only just joined the forum today, this thread is pretty old but I found it very interesting and couldn't help but comment. I have seen violence and the effects it has on people and families, and seeing this post brought back memories, I just want to leave my 2 cents on the issue...
Auliya posted something that I totally agreed with, I LOVE the fact that my boyfriend is a whole foot taller than me (im 5'3, hes 6'3) But that awesome feeling of protection, of knowing he COULD protect me if necessary and me actually wanting him to go out, all "Manly" and beat up any guy who looks at me are totally different. I personally don't know any girls who associate violence with masculinity.
Violence has taken away two friends of mine, Micheal, who is my age and I went to elementary and high school with. And before that, Stephen Smith, the big brother of my best friend who I was close to since I was 8 years old, who often acted as a "big brother" to me as well. Both were killed in Nanaimo, both by guys with "something to prove".
After Stephen was killed many people were confused and angry and talked about revenge etc, One day I was sitting with Stephens eldest sister, and we started to talk of the anger that many people were feeling and she said something that, although simple, really stuck with me at that point, she said "you cannot kill the monster by becoming it". I find that so true, I just wish that people could remember those words in the heat of the moment...
It really saddens me that in our culture choosing not to fight is somehow associated with being a pussy...I know I personally consider it much more Masculine if a a guy keeps his head in a situation and gets himself out if it smoothly.
It also really saddens me that so many of my friends, myself included have already turned numb to the violent acts that have taken place in our lives. When Steve was killed I was naive and the news hit me like a tonne of bricks, after that, hearing about Micheal I was in shock. Most of us who grew up with Micheal had been through the ordeal once already with Stephen (Both boys were killed in Nanaimo, but from Gabriola Island, a very small community) and I think while going through it again most of us were very numb. It wasn't until Mikes funeral that the truth really sunk in and hit us all.
Theres so much more I have to say on this issue but I think so far my post has definitely been a little babbley. I just find it scary that these events keep occurring, it's as if anything we learn from the results of these acts of violence when they first occur...just are not sticking in peoples heads. Our culture is still obsessed with, and glorifies violence, However, I don't really know if there is anyone but the individual to blame. Testosterone(no offense, cause I know its not just the guys doing it these days...) + Booze and or Drugs + the right "target" seems to be all anyone needs these days...and it seems that there is a fine line whether it results in a few bruises or the end of a life.
well said .. I agree with you in alot of ways .. although i think society is getting a little too violent more and more girls are going around with massive testosterone charges aswell these days more and more of them think its allright to go around beating eachother senseless rather than being just a male issue I think its a society issue that is being shoved down our throats by the media.. not that we can blame the media for what garbage we watch though.. Its really unfourtuanate that we have to live in the kind of society that condones and encourages violence =.. although i think there is a time and a place if absoloutley necessary.. such as self defence.. violence is really not the answer becuase as the old saying goes violence begets more violence... I dont think a man is masculine because he can beat another man sensless in my opinion what makes him strong and manly is his willpower .. to some that may make no sense but willpower is often the hardest most difficult thing to achieve i mean its not hard to beat someone senseless out of anger to me its the easy soloution buut to have the ability to say no and walk away its alot tougher in alot of ways.. being able to stand your ground and follow your own ethics is far more sexier to me than seeing blood splattered on your shirt.. a strong willed man is more desireable than a weak willed one.. so yeah all in all i have to say we cant entirely blame men for violence its woman and girls to.. they think they have something to prove ... and it really gets me mad.. woman want to be mens equals in every way including violence but isnt it better to forgo the bad stuff and take eqaulity with the good stuff.... when you grow up and have kids do you make all the mistakes your parents made or do you try to do your own thing??? to me that kind of resembles the same idea!! anyhow im rambling but this thread is awesome
Last edited by truebluetara; 05-30-2007 at 10:54 AM.
Reason: add more to it