King of the Cage Saturday Night Nov. 17th

[Paracelcus]

Well MMA certainly has a competent defender and articulate proponent.

I am back at work and too busy, a little bored and frankly much persuaded from what Scott and Johnny Kombat have to say. Just two "annoying points:"

1) Johnny attempts to smear me with the label of intellectual.

The academic allusions I made were because of strong comments from you and Scott to counter the knee-jerk assumption that people who fight are all drunk illiterates. You and Scott tried your best to balance that -- far too much so -- to the point that both your assertions seem to imply that only academics would get involved with MMA. Hence my ironic remarks about the academic quality of MMA/Ultimate fighting.

(Since Johnny has made comments on my friends My friends are usually accomplished alpinists who desire nothing better than nearly freezing to death on a steep face somewhere miles from nowhere -- except Scott, who only partakes of the freezing when he's not grappling someone to death on the floor of the gym -- oh... he's also got an MA).

2) Although I have been swayed by a lot of the arguments of Scott and yourself, I am most ambivalent about the the assumption that MMA is so totally different from all other martial arts that anyone's experience of any other martial art that isn't MMA is therefore irrelevant. I am just honestly not totally persuaded on this point as it does not make any logical sense when applied to any other sports -- this point is covered in another post.

3) Regarding Typos -- since I extended the courtesy of not nit-picking blog written text -- I am assuming we are all busy with lives and careers -- I would have expected reciprocation.

4) As a concommitment of "3" I would also make the observation that I have tried as much as possible to try and stand in both the shoes of Johnny Kombat and Scott Sommers. I have also conceded points where I have learned something or think that a fair point has been made and continue to indicated good points -- as I have at the beginning of this post.

The really alarming thing is there seems to be no attempt at higher understanding here from Johnny Kombat. He thinks he's right on every point. He responds to points he wants to and ignores others. He hammers on points he is right and I have conceded again and again -- yes MMA is safe -- but he keeps raising it as if it is still a point of contention. He has called me, as an individual, both ignorant and then asserted that I am an intellectual.

Also Johnny asserts that he does not make any money as an MMA promoter in an earlier post, then contradicts himself in his last post to say that I am wrong to state that he isn't making money????

I think that inability to admit a single point has nothing to do with either intellectual rigour or the logic he attaches to them.. it has everything to do with the fact that he promotes and endevours to make money at the sport. He has to defend it at every point, come what may, he can never concede -- at least in public -- that he has ever been wrong. To do so would undercut the either real or percieved financial viability of this sport in Nanaimo. That may be what Johny must do...but it is not honest.

Lastly, the reason I started this debate was to learn more about the sport. We have covered a lot of points on this, but the real debate has yet to begin. To my knowledge there has been no public debate on Ultimate Fighting/MMA (I realise that both Johnny and Scott want, and need, to describe their professed sport as very different from others... but there is a lot of dishonesty in this if they see it either the same as Jui Jitsu or Judo or that much different from boxing, kickboxing or Ultimate Fighting. Come what may the average Nanaimo punter certainly sees Ultimate fighting and MMA as one and the same... Johnny will need to work it very hard to dispell this idea.

When this debate within the community begins it will be average punters with no knowledge of martial arts -- or even any idea of physically challenging themselves to the limit. It will be your average office worker, your concerned mother who sees people who fight as not something to emulate; it will be church groups and others, some who live near the venues...it will be your average punter.

They will not be so willing to concede points as I am... nor will they have a inkling about ultimate commitment.

[johnniekombat]

Paracelcus,

Make no mistake, this was an entertaining debate, and enjoyable challenge. I love debating, and clearly you do as well. You included some personal comments and colourful language in your posts and I was enjoying the same freedom for a change. The usual politically correct, business communication gets so mundane at times. Regardless, I respect your opinions and appreciate the opportunity to speak unofficially on the sport of MMA. Your point of view is one shared by many of the sports opponents and casual 'fans'. Despite my confrontational debate style, I think the process of articulating my points has helped me achieve a higher understanding of the sport of MMA, so thank you.

What else you want to talk about?

[johnniekombat]

Just a note I came across quoted from Dana White (UFC President) today:

“There're 32 states total in the United States that regulate MMA. Thirteen of them opened up last year. At that rate, we're knocking them down quick. We've done a lot of big things over the last seven years and I think the next seven are going to be even better.”

[johnniekombat]

More from the interview at http://www.mmaweekly.com:

“Look at the NFL. There's nothing bigger in this country than the NFL,” White stated. “They've been spending billions of dollars trying to break into Europe and they can't do it, because nobody gives a (expletive) about football in Europe. They didn't grow up playing football, they don't know about it.

“I take two guys and put them in the Octagon and they can use any martial art they want. It translates through all different cultural barriers, language barriers... people love fighting.”

He continued, “I think that this thing can be global. I think that this thing can be the biggest sport in the world. I already know it's the most exciting sport in the world.”

“We're going into Newcastle for the first time and there's like 700 tickets left. The thing is going to be sold out, 10,000 fans there. And everywhere we've gone in the U.K., we've sold out.”

[Paracelcus]

OK Point taken...and I do appreciate your last comments. I think that between you and Scott if there is any possible line of argumentation that we missed in this debate then please let me know... I have tried to counter it on all fronts, personal and intellectual. I think that I am persuaded by most of your points ultimately, and for the others I think I have to reserve judgement. My feelings were initiated and compounded from one bad experience with a "So-You-Think-Your-Tough Fight."

For what its worth I now am a pretty firm proponent of the sport... for all the reasons you have suggested, and if there are things that I may not like for MMA, then I need to live with them in the same way I live with ice hockey violence -- which I completely concur with your viewpoint upon. I have also been around to the gyms and talked with A LOT of people, even the BBs at my daughter's Judo class in Tokyo (Kickboxing is a real isolated sport in Japan so those guys aren't much good), so that has helped as well.

Also Scott as told me to "get a life" and "join the real world" so I think that I just will have to do that... or he will come and kick me arse next time we meet. You should hook up with him when he's in town... he's been fighting for about 100 years... and is pretty indominable on the ground.

I googled you and your site and as one business person to another I want to also wish you a prosperous and happy future in your endevours and you can count on my support in the future if the conversation turns to the percieved vagaries of MMA. I will also write a letter to the NDNs retracting my broad generalisations about a sport I did not know enough about (though I wonder if they will print it because such a statement lacks bombast and is a little boring... but I will give it a try).

Anatole France is indeed right.

Sincerely,
Rod