Notstradrama: Excuse me, maybe it was the way my post came out, but these pages are an education and an enlightenment to a person who has worked, for many years and not had the time to learn the specifics or the reasoning of the web. Sir being a retired teacher you should enjoy, seeing persons, who never graduated, but survived and participating, in this new world of technology and computers. Now if I can just get you on side and say that putting a Liquor outlet, in the same vicinity and occupation of the younger generation is wrong, then we are back to where we started.
Your fear only makes sense if there is any evidence that youth will be better able to get booze if there is a liquor store next to the 7-11. Personally, neither me nor my friends got our booze from hanging around near a liquor store. It is through connections that various youth have to older brothers, friends, etc. So, it doesn't matter if their "boot" has to go an extra couple of blocks. Can you imagine how discreet that would be, a bunch of kids hanging out in front of the store, running into friends of their parents and who knows who else, in a busy liquor store, asking people: "excuse me would you buy me some alcohol." Only the dumbest of the dumb sit out front asking strangers to buy them alcohol. Losing those folk to alcohol won't be a loss to society!
Originally Posted by oldtimer
Also, it's a lot easier to get pot at high school (or for that matter to find someone who can get alcohol or any other substance), and yet we don't ban those from locating near youth!
Lastly, television advertising, next to peer pressure of course, is a lot more influential than a neon sign that says LIQUOR STORE.
You agree with me
I was not saying that smoking is good for you, quite the opposit! Smokers are not allowed, nor should they wish to subject you to their smoke either and laws are made so that will not happen.
Originally Posted by kickidee
What I am saying is it is no sweat off you if I smoke. It will kill me sooner, and I will cost the system less, but none of that should concern you as this is my addiction and my choice.
Please do not mistake a mind your own buisness if the action is legal, pays heaps of taxes and has nothing to do with you for a what a good thing I do statement. And congratulations for quitting, off topic or not. I did once for a year, the obecity thing got the best of me though but it is a triumph and I understand you have to work at it daily for a few years also that you might need the "born again non smoker" approach to the subject too. Just so we are not judging each other.
I also apologize for going off topic, I understand what you are saying relates as a society comment rather than a me comment and I was guilty of making it personal as well.
Originally Posted by oldtimer
I must ask though if you saw the post I wrote that was at least mostly on topic although misspelled? do you know how much these low cost units are monitered and that it is mostly young famillies in them? That alcoholics are born and not made? etc. Perhaps it was not what you were thinking of either, and yes it wold be nice if we could leave the world a little les tarnished than our own experiences decreed in life and I just have the argument that a liquor store should not cause anything to get worse in the youth realm. Its bad enough already though isnt it? To be frank it is the drugs that have me worried as I think this is the worst fear for our young people today. This is a good post much as our minds wander off the topic you presented.
I have been reading reports, payed for by us the taxpayers, enlisted by the city councilors, and ALCOHOL, is still the biggest problem for youths in Nanaimo. Also the reports say that the more we can do to reduce the accessibility of Alcohol, the better chances we have of slowing down the problem. These reports are available on line, one is PROCESS FOR DEVELOPING AN ALCOHOL@DRUG STRATEGY FOR NANAIMO, the other is, CITY OF NANAIMO LIQUOR CONTROL STRATEGY, both interesting reading. Another neat thing is to read old minutes of council, and committe reports, and still see the council and committees, following their own agendas, and not acting or following suggestions from the reports, or their own criteria, in rezoning applications. It is amazing, you work for years, paying taxes, electing persons to represent you, and look after you, and when you retire, you start to find out that some of the people you thought were good, are obviously in the position for themselves. LIVE AND LEARN
Last edited by oldtimer; 06-25-2009 at 09:41 PM.
Reason: word changes
Oldtimer you have it right on the money.I started going to council because of the busking issues.I have learned a lot in the last few years. i have learned how to listen and i have learned how to speak. I have learned how to do research.
Originally Posted by oldtimer
It is really important for all of us who live in Nanaimo to learn how council works.This is our city and we have a right to participate.
Liquor is about money ,just like real estate is about money. just like grants in aid are about money. Drugs too are about money. Even poor people and homelessness are about money.
Bar owners, liquor store owners and bootleggers make money from booze.
real estate agents can make a fortune if they know what the City is doing to change zoning.
Societies can create jobs if they know how to get grants in aid and sponsorship. Construction companies that know how to work the civic system can make a fortune by being on the ball and knowing which councillors to lobby.
Jobs are created for beaurocrats out of drug strategies and liquor strategies.
Learning to sit on the right committees gives a person more leverage when it comes to civic elections.It is an interesting game and one has to know the rules.
I hope I am not totally off topic.
Funny that alcohol is cited as the worst vice in teen world. Teens will drink alcohol. Perhaps teens will report alcohol first because it is a legal drug. The youth climbing through windows to take our valuables are not drunk. they need a high and that is what your computer is worth to them. Just a fix or two. Walk downtown. that itching scratching and funny walk? Not alcohol related. Perhaps these kids and young adults were not polled.
Originally Posted by oldtimer
However I respect your research much as my brain and involvement in the lives of many young people tells me that the smoking of pot and other drugs that are more affordable are the most likely vices in this age group, it may be that alcohol is the worst problem facing our youth, but drugs are a parents worst fear, that and HIV which also has been blossoming for years with the young people. Sex and drugs do not involve a bootlegger who would be highly visible at the Harewood mall seven eleven area.
Research also says only 3% of addicts to drugs in the chemichal form will ever rehabilitate.
There should not be alcohol influencing kids but I still maintain a liquor store is O.K. at that mall because of many good reasons already cited. I dont believe it will make alcohol any more or less available or popular with kids than it is already.
I am thinking now of a fine point. Although I am sure that the upper income kids could concievably get booze from the parents, I think in the lower income homes booze is not kept on hand, as it is consumed immediately. Perhaps the social drinkers have it on hand. I do not want to stereotype but this is what I have observed, and it makes sense, the money for alcohol is not great in the lower income group.
Most of the teen booze is, I am told by the kids, booted for them in a more organized run. They will pay one young hungry adult looking for a dollar to purchase to deliver the alcohol that the kids purchase collectively. So in a sense every new liquer store does make the liquor easier to aquire (closer etc) The problem wont be at the site itself, but the location would make it a little easier for some teenagers get alcohol.
This however would occur everywhere there is a liquer store, and to stop it you wold have to make alcohol illegal altogether.
I'm really glad old timer brought this issue up. What is the solution?
Kickadee, if I knew the answer, I would be a millionaire, the only ideas that I have read from, different reports, is to make Liquor less available, and not in front of the Youths, to be so attracted to it. All the posts are correct, if someone wants something bad enough, they will get it. Society, has to at some point, start taking a stand, be it local politicians, then move on to Provincial poiticians, then Federal. The problem then arises, that these persons selling this alcohol, are backing political persons, in all three areas. Now this is where Society steps in, we as parents, older and know the complications of alcohol, have to start saying enough is enough, even though we might enjoy a beer, or a glass of wine once and a while, then we will have to go a little farther to purchase it, and not have it in every mall, and on every street corner, to invite our younger generation to indulge. The younger generation are slowly catching on to the effects of smoking, and the amount of young smokers has declined. So a little slow down of the opportunity for booze, and a little more education, and we might get them on side and then we can start with the drug situation. One step at a time. My generation screwed up, the next generation, is screwing up, lets hope that with the two, the next generation will have a better chance to see thier lives, without the need of substances.
Queen of the waterfront: It is amazing the lies and interpretations, that are put in front of committees eyes, from the persons seeking a change in rezoning. Yet these committees listen to them and do not invite the general public, or the neighborhoods involved. In our case, the application to rezone the Harewood Mall, to accept a liquor store, in the committees they asked about children, no response, they asked how far the next liquor store was they got a response. the committe recommended "yes 'for a liquor store. That was the plan Nanaimo Advisory Committee, Chaired By Bill Holdom. It seems now in this day and age, the liquor applications in NANAIMO, are more improtant than the children. It will be an up hill battle to win this one due to the fact that, the committees, are one sided, but never the less, it is the PROPERTY OWNERS, and the HAREWOOD RESIDENTS, that will stand fast and maybe wake this city council up, that ENTERTAINMENT NANAIMO, is not going to win this time.