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Thread: Occupy Wall St, Occupy Nanaimo

  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Isthisfair? View Post
    Onama, you are right, and thank you for pointing out my ridicule of other people's posts. I will try not to do that. However, I feel compelled to mention that the cartoon depicting protesters as imbeciles is also offensive, don't you think so? That was the last straw for me, and affected the tone of my replies.

    I didn't realize that taking quotes from publicly published material is plagiarism, even if the source is acknowledged. I haven't come up with original material because I don't feel that I can just blurt out my beliefs about this situation without supporting evidence from statistics, etc.. However, you have statistics that appear to prove that Nanaimo is doing very well. I don't know what to say about that. My experience has been quite the opposite. I see very poor people, including children, every day.
    Well, sure. The cartoon was in poor taste, and because you feel passionately about this I can understand your getting angry.

    Plagiarism, according to the New Oxford American Dictionary, is "the practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own." I very much appreciated your referencing the Nanaimo News when you did. The issue was with the other two sources you copied and pasted without referencing. Fortunately, copying and pasting what you wrote into a Google search quickly alleviated that. UNfortunately, many other people don't take the time to do that, and will assume that the words you write are your own. I don't expect others to be as hyper-obsessed with semantics and with online research as I am, and therefor take the idea of direct referencing where one gets their information far more seriously than others. People deserve to know where what they are reading stems from.

    There are poor people in Nanaimo, certainly. I have seen them, too. I have been them. The best thing we can do for people in poverty, to me, is not to make them feel like poverty is an affliction which government must overcome on their behalf. The best we can do is tell them "we will help", and then DO IT.

    You know, though, I see opportunities everywhere that aren't being taken. HST got canned, but... HST was great for me. It gave me a good $1200 a year to help. With an income as low as $4700, you can imagine how wonderful that was, especially as I was trying as hard as I could to avoid Income Assistance. Now I have to help pay back billions. And amazingly, when you do the math, only about 25% of eligible voters determined the outcome of that. For those who opposed the HST, they did a good thing: they inspired their proponents to go out and vote. I applaud that and I have learned from it, even though I disagree with them.

    BC has a huge untapped eco-tourism resource in addition to really awesome downtowns (such as Nanaimo's). We could be tapping into that far more than we have been. It shouldn't just be loggers that get to see this countryside, and this is not a hard thing to sell.

    Student loans in Canada are ridiculously fair. I have a 3.2% interest on my student loan, repayable only after I am out of school and have found a job. And my student loan is only about half of what they've actually given me. I've gotten many grants that have helped me out. I will agree that student loans are an issue, albeit a minor one, but this is something that can be changed with two things: 1)people getting educations that are USEFUL (this doesn't mean an arts history or anthropology degree, it means welding or small engine mechanics) and 2) free tuition. Higher taxes will address a small portion, the rest can be addressed by people entering useful fields. If people actually got educations that provided them with CAREERS, perhaps we wouldn't be so desperate, and perhaps private money-making corporations like Sprott-Shaw and Discovery wouldn't be so popular.

    Finally, people need to acknowledge their own mistakes and learn from them. Many people who are in trouble now are people who didn't THINK. They didn't plan for the future. They were not realistic. They were fools. They have a wonderful opportunity: to teach their children not to fall for the same lines they did. They can recover by not being ignorant, by investing intelligently, and by living frugally. They cannot recover by complaining, bemoaning their lot in life, and feeling sorry for themselves.

  2. #32

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    At the beginning of the thread people were asking what to protest?

    How about an unemployment rate double the average of everywhere else.

    How about protesting an education system that does not properly teach people to think, plan for the future, be realistic and not fools.

    How about telling Harper and friends to no using the good name of Canada and your tax money to do this: Extraordinary pictures show Libyan city shelled to smithereens
    And if our Federal Government does want to run over the world like a Hitlerian NWO, perhaps we could ask they don't use DU weapons that leave toxic metal and radioactive dust on our troops and the local landscape to keep killing peoples and ecosystems of the area for thousands of years.

    If we don't lobby for our interests, then the corporate lobby gets what it wants: Canada Well Positioned to Lead NATO Forward

    How about we protest for the right to fly to the US without being offered a choice between full body radiation or sexual assault at the airport

    We could demand one of our governments to do at least some local monitoring of the effects of us being first downstream of three ongoing melting down nuclear reactors and stored fuel and ex nuclear weapon material. Even just to show we have nothing to worry about (although they increased by orders of magnitude the 'safe' values right after the disaster).

    We could demand Harper not march us into WW111 this fall.

    We could ask why with port trade volumes declining, why more and more money keeps going to expanding port infrastructure (Christy's new plan-same as the old plan).

    We could demand that the Federal Government borrow only from the Bank of Canada and from private banks. About 80% is from private banks. This would save us tens of billions a year in interest charges.

    Most accept its a finate world that is environmentally stressed, so we should demand and explanation why so much of what the exponential government and corporation plan for and count on is about the same as cancer.

    We could demand people come together and stop this Big Banker NATO CFR Bilderberg etc. march to feudalism. Here is a good video on this many people seem to like: Nader, Ron Paul, Kucinich Speak to Occupy Wall Street - Original

    How about people get together and get informed about more than what the corporations feed us.

    How about we protest all the lies! A 'mainstream' world of Plato's shadows centred on ponzi scheme fiat.

    My thanks and appreciation in advance to everyone who attends. Cept agent provocateurs of course.
    Last edited by keeha; 10-15-2011 at 09:33 PM.

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by keeha View Post
    We could demand Harper not march us into WW111 this fall.

    Well..........we are definitely moving toward some huge world event.

  4. #34

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    About 10000 ppl on the streets in vancouver and numerous tent cities going up. they are planning on staying for the long haul

    http://www.facebook.com/occupyvancouver

  5. #35

  6. #36

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    I got there at 11:15. For the first half hour a solid opening act with professional progressive protest televised type talk and OWS outline that got the crowd warmed up. Then it seemed the media disappeared. Then a concrete picnic table, a bullhorn and people speaking (or singing) just long enough before handing it to the next person and a ring of about 500 people listened and spoke in small groups of real and important things and everyone shared a good vibe under a clear deep blue sky.

    Lots of families with children at the event. We lost most of the over 60 folks by the end of the march.

    As I left at 4:30; Great atmosphere, near a hundred people talking in informal fluid groups, it seemed easy to move around meet people and have earnest informed conversations about so many immediately important things.

    People were planning to stay the night.
    Last edited by keeha; 10-15-2011 at 09:58 PM.

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by onoma View Post
    It seems to me that when people begin to view each other as fellow human beings and not as unintelligent or inhumane automatons, they begin to realize that the similarities outweigh the differences, and that those who may be on opposite sides may not be as terrible as was initially thought.

    Jumping to conclusions and making judgments without the knowledge to back up your beliefs is a dangerous thing. Occupy Wall Street has some good ideals, but it lacks a clear vision. The cohesiveness seems to be based on ideals and not on knowledge. It seems to advocate for a belief system that rules out the ability to learn from mistakes. Here's an interesting alternative thought: http://the53.tumblr.com/

    I understand hardship. I have been on welfare. I have been a single mother with two autistic children and I have had an annual income - with two dependants - of $4700. I have student loans. I understand the expense of education. I have owned a home. I've faced foreclosure. As a person on the autism spectrum, I have faced the harsh reality of having a disability in this country. I am a poster child for the 99%. But I also see people like Flugel Horn. I see humanity. More than that: I see what I have done, and I see what I can do. I accept where I went wrong. I work to make my future and the futures of my children better ones. And I have succeeded. I can say with some certainty that success doesn't lie in complaining; it lies in the refusal to be ignorant and the ability to think logically and critically in regard to humanity. It lies in the refusal to stop learning and become stagnant.

    As I've stated, I have no problem with people who disagree. I want to understand them. I do expect that if they are going to make a point, that they acknowledge from the outset that it is merely an opinion and that they haven't looked into it, or that they have done the research and can direct me to the resources from which they get their information.

    If I seemed harsh, isthisfair?, I apologize. I should point out that I really appreciate the turn that this thread has taken, with people attempting to understand each other rather than berate. I hope providing some clarity surrounding my own beliefs incites more thought and perhaps a better understanding of the people who perhaps don't see eye-to-eye with you.

    Side note: If there's one thing that gives me hope, it's the existence of philanthropy.
    I spent 6 hours at the Plaza yesterday. Your story mirrors mine in many respects. I raised 5 kids on very little money. When I had nothing to give, I gave my time and taught my kids to do the same.
    The kids I saw at Occupy Nanaimo seemed to be informed about many issues. Many were passionate about seeing global change. I was amazed at the diversity of the group. Little children, moms and babies, union people, old hippies and young ones. The message that far too many people globally have far too little, was the main theme. Transparency from goverments at all levels was important to every person I spoke with.
    I have never seen so many people in the plaza. Finally, our town square became a gathering place for people from all walks of life in Nanaimo. This speaks volumes about revitalizing our city. There must be open dialogue with council, business and the general public. No one was excluded fom this event. There were rich and poor, panhandlers and buskers, politicians and the press. Peaceful, informative and genuine are the words I would use to describe Occupy Nanaimo. It was truly a communty event!
    Last edited by queen of the waterfront; 10-16-2011 at 10:52 AM.

  8. #38
    Join Date
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    This thread is a good read, for the reasons cited by others (understanding, respectful dialogue even in the face of strong disagreement, etc.).

    I don't think it's fair to say that the protesters are hypocritical because they possess products made by large corporations. I don't think the message is "there should be no corporate entities".

    This article is interesting:
    http://knowledgeproblem.com/2011/10/...y-wall-street/

  9. #39
    Join Date
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    Location
    Calgary
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    Default Didn't mean to offend...sorry...

    When I posted that cartoon, but nza posted all those spelling errors and it was funny and made me think of that cartoon.

    I actually don't disagree with a lot of what the protesters are against, I work in oil & gas and it's definitely an 'old boys' club where directors are on each others' boards and hire executives and give big severance packages, regardless of the results of the company...and the first ones to get cut when things are tough--the working class of course.
    I also believe our governments are making it easier for large corporations to amass huge amounts of the natural resources of this country for relatively little money and environmental and human resource commitment.

  10. #40

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    Back in the plaza today, I am impressed with the focused group of organized occupiers. They set out an agenda, they laid down the process for dealing with issues. such as sustenance for the campers, and keeping the plaza clean. They clearly stated that there must be a zone that is smoke free for the sake of the children (of which there are many). One of my issues is the erosion of public space. I spent an hour playing original protest songs, and protest songs from the sixties. All donations went into the fund for food, coffee and whatever is needed to keep the momentum going. I will be there every day exercising my right to Freedom of Expression and doing my little part to help out. What an incredible event this is! I firmly believe that Occupy Nanaimo is going to get people (especially young ones) out to vote! Kudos to the City Of Nanaimo and the library for their wholehearted support of this event. The RCMP are handling this in the right way. They are hearing from the crowd that there is to be no violence, and are acting accordingly. There is not a huge police presense and they are doing a great job observing and not interfering. History is going to tell the real story of Occupy Wall street. Democracy is clearly in action all over the world. let us hope and pray that those in power, whether they be government, or corporations, pay attention and take heed. We can change the world, and make it a better place for everyone in it, one peaceful protest at a time. I am so thankful that I got to live to see this day!

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