Nanaimo Dark Skies Project

[ebusinesstutor]

The lights are for safety and security as well as safe navigation

FBI stats for 2009 show that only 27.9% of crime happens at night. If light prevented crime, why is 72.1% of it happening in the daytime? And they aren't need for navigation as we can use flashlights for that. And cars have their own lights that are better focused for drivers to see than streetlights.

Yet plants thrive under the additional lighting and most animals are attracted to light. Others use the shadows for shelter from light

Plants are evolved for a normal day/night cycle and do better with both.

And how does one measure what a "greenhouse gas" is? Is this the amount of heat generated by light?

No, it has nothing to do with heat generated by a light bulb. It is gasses like carbon dioxide and methane created by such activities as burning coal & natural gas and during the production/refining of fossil fuels. These are easily measurable and are increasing. The problem with these gasses is that they absorb & emit thermal radiation, increasing warming on Earth.

excessive light has been linked to cancers, obesity, immune system disorders and depression in humans None of these have had any real solid backing, only theory.

Here are some supporting studies:
1. Disruption of Circadian Rhythms
2. Light Pollution and Cancer
3. Light and Newborn Babies

The American Medical Association supports control of light pollution because of its effects on health.

many migratory birds use stars to navigate at night which light pollution hides If they look upwards, they will see stars, look downward to see lights. It is simple stuff. And, if I, from the ground in a major city, can see the stars, I am sure birds 1000 feet closer to them can see the stars, too.
it keeps us from our dark sky heritage It looks pretty dark in the sky to me.

Not over large cities as there is a light "dome" created. The Hancock building in Chicago used to get 1500 dead birds at its base every night during migrations so they turned off their lights.

When you look up from within a city, you are seeing only a few stars. Drive a couple of hours out of town on a dark night with no moon up and you will be amazed at what you see. That is the dark sky heritage we are losing.

[ebusinesstutor]

I want to know what day that picture with the global light showing was taken. I don't remember when the whole Earth was dark at the same time. Looks like we turned all the lights out in Canada and are as dark as darkest Africa. It looks like light pollution is everywhere else is the problem. Turning out the lights won't slow down global warming, it's cyclical, and started 10,000 years ago at the ending of the last Ice Age.

You're right that it is never dark over the entire world all at once. This is a composite image of satellite images shot over each area when it is dark.

Canada is not the only problem, but we have to start somewhere.

Yes, there have been global cooling periods in the past, but that doesn't make is safe for us to put all the greenhouse gasses in the air. Even if you don't believe in global warming (most reputable scientists not being paid by energy companies do), air pollution affects us in many ways such as increasing amounts of athsma and respiratory disorders.

Polluting our air is like pissing in your drinking water before you drink it. Not a wise thing to do.

[yorway]

I might be more sympathetic to your environmental pollution problem if it wasn't for the fact that your light pollution problem is just a self serving reason to darken the earth so that you and other star gazers don't have to travel so far out of the cities to enjoy your hobby.

[zedex]

I was raised in a small town- about 1/100th the size of Nanaimo and I have lived as an adult in some of the world's largest cities. I have lived north and south, east and west and many points between each.

No matter where I have been, I have always seen the stars at night unless there was a natural occurring factor: cloud cover.

Now, addressing your bird issue, would you agree that it is plausible that cloud cover could be a contributing factor in birds becoming "disoriented and off course"? And, if birds use the stars for navigation, what do they do on cloudy nights?? And, since they use stars, how do they know where to fly during the day? More importantly, who asked the birds how they navigate? How do we know the bird did not lie to us?

I, personally, think that birds, much like fish and other migratory animals, use instinctual homing rather than landmarks. For example, most snakes will migrate back to their home area when nearing birth of their neonates. Do they use the stars? Whales migrate to and from their home area. What do they use? Wolves, bears, and even chickens and cows return home at night. None of these animals have maps, some have no access to stars and landmarks shift, yet each goes home. How do they do it?

Long winded, yes, but do you see my point?

Anyway, the power company would still have to run 24/7/365 to provide power for all night businesses, wouldn't it?? And, they could store the extra power in large wet or dry cell batteries, but then, you are producing gases from the power company's procedures and from the charging batteries, would you not? Besides, isn't the power company here called BC Hydro, which implies the electricity was generated from water {hydro} power? Turbines turn by force of moving water, the turbines are connected to generators that generate electricity. That power is stored in capacitors and from there, pumped to homes via microplants scattered throughout a given area. Does this sound about right?

By your own admission, the picture you posted is made up of night shots from over the world and pasted together to make one dark planet. What evidence do we have that addtional lighting was not created in the photo in order to give plause to someone's personal agenda? The point is that if it has to be "constructed" to make a point, could it not also be "constructed" fictitiously, in order to exaggerate the point?

Yes, turning off the lights would save money. This is no dispute. However, of the 27% crime at night, how much more would occur if the lights were off? By using motion sensing lights, we could save money on the taxpayer's power bill. But........... the detectors would have to be set so as to light the way for kids and burn long enough to aid the slow, aged folks, too. Now, if this were to happen, any small animals would set off the lights and then people would be compalining about the lights flashing on and off all hours of the night and even any power company will tell you that turning large lights like street lamps burn more power to start up than to just leave them on. { In which case, you have a higher power bill plus the cost of installing, maintaining and repairing the detectors} Any savings would be negated by higher operating costs.

For the slow moving people, how long do you set the light to burn? Would 30 seconds be enough? Probably not. Some folks cannot cross a street in 30 seconds? A minute? They may be too slow for that timer, too. What about 3 minutes??? Now, suppose the person is not a slow mover and it was just a kid rolling past on his skateboard and triggered the light. He is gone in under 5 seconds, yet the light burns for 2minutes55 seconds longer than needed. Is this saving any power?

Flashlights: OK, they can help. And............they use batteries. Batteries that end up putting toxic chemicals in landfills and some other special interest group is going to cry about that. Rechargables?? What is used to power them?? Electricity and they do emit a small amount of toxic and flammable fumes. Nothing we would realize in our homes, but, again, some group of uninformed "enviromentalists" will cry about the gases emitted from them.........and rechargables do not last very long at all.

So, I guess instead of going for a safe walk at night, we could just jump in the car where we can stay warm and dry and have plenty of light. But, guess what................. yep, another group will shed tears for that.

What are we left with? Well, we could go back in time and throw away the technology, lights, automobiles and all the other amenities life offers us. But, will this really stop the world's whinners? Not at all. You see, back then, there were lots of cattle, horses, goats, chickens and people and each emits many times more methane gas than any light bulb. Sewer systems would be where ever we happen to stand at that time. Think stepping in dog crap makes you mad????

Or, we could just well enough alone, live and let live. We can continue to debate over a computer or we could travel thousands of miles to talk about it. Where are the savings there?

No matter what is done, someone cries about something and alot of people are getting tired of uprooting their lives for a few "inconveninced" people. Why can't people just tend to their business and not involve in others? People trying to fix what is not broken. There seems to be quite a bit of that lately.

Instead of trying to change the world for a few interests, we could adapt or relocate to suit our individual needs. And, we can focus on real world issues that affect everyone like homelessness, hunger, poor job markets, morals and ethics and, well, you know.... stuff like that

The dark sky heritage is still around. It is just out of town.

And, you never addressed the issue of cows and their methane gases? How should we handle this??

[Tenspot]

beano

[zedex]

beano

Comical !!!!

[fcnanaimo]

I was raised in a small town- about 1/100th the size of Nanaimo and I have lived as an adult in some of the world's largest cities. I have lived north and south, east and west and many points between each.

No matter where I have been, I have always seen the stars at night unless there was a natural occurring factor: cloud cover.

Now, addressing your bird issue, would you agree that it is plausible that cloud cover could be a contributing factor in birds becoming "disoriented and off course"? And, if birds use the stars for navigation, what do they do on cloudy nights?? And, since they use stars, how do they know where to fly during the day? More importantly, who asked the birds how they navigate? How do we know the bird did not lie to us?

This is the world's longest troll response to this issue, yes?

[IslandStyle123]

The absurdity of this thread is beyond comprehension.

[zedex]

The absurdity of this thread is beyond comprehension.

Hence the reason for my responses. When rationalization fails, one must resort to equal level opposite intelligence. Despite the links provided, there is no proof light is bad for us, plants, animals, or birds.

[fcnanaimo]

The absurdity of this thread is beyond comprehension.

I admit every new post is making my head throb just a little more, but I'm not sure you took my comment the way it was meant.